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	<title>Comments on: Musicians are Poor (and Dirty)</title>
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	<description>A one man band with no fans</description>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-462969</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Dec 2010 00:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/#comment-462969</guid>
		<description>hey, Niki... i am a musician who is in it 100% for the music...  i barely scrap by each month, but i can&#039;t see myself working a &quot;normal&quot; job, i mean i could be a car detailer or a shop hand or something, but a desk job would kill me faster than anything... i tried to work for my mom, she worked as a retirement benefits manager at a major american corporation, and, it was HELL!!!!!!  it was like i was on drugs... my head would spin, i couldn&#039;t keep track of anything other than the work... and i didn&#039;t enjoy a single minute... of course i wasn&#039;t paid, it was just to help out... i mean shes my mom, shes pretty much done everything for me, so i jumped at the chance to give back, i guess the moral of the story is... do what you love, and to hell with the consequences... and also for the people who work desk jobs, god bless you all, it is serious bullshit that you work like bees and don&#039;t get props... and for the factory workers, same thing, we are all in this together, thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey, Niki&#8230; i am a musician who is in it 100% for the music&#8230;  i barely scrap by each month, but i can&#8217;t see myself working a &#8220;normal&#8221; job, i mean i could be a car detailer or a shop hand or something, but a desk job would kill me faster than anything&#8230; i tried to work for my mom, she worked as a retirement benefits manager at a major american corporation, and, it was HELL!!!!!!  it was like i was on drugs&#8230; my head would spin, i couldn&#8217;t keep track of anything other than the work&#8230; and i didn&#8217;t enjoy a single minute&#8230; of course i wasn&#8217;t paid, it was just to help out&#8230; i mean shes my mom, shes pretty much done everything for me, so i jumped at the chance to give back, i guess the moral of the story is&#8230; do what you love, and to hell with the consequences&#8230; and also for the people who work desk jobs, god bless you all, it is serious bullshit that you work like bees and don&#8217;t get props&#8230; and for the factory workers, same thing, we are all in this together, thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Niki</title>
		<link>http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-455629</link>
		<dc:creator>Niki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 21:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/#comment-455629</guid>
		<description>Good points,
but then,..the next important question becomes: what OTHER &quot;professions&quot; these musicians need to do (or find out), if they&#039;re really 100% passionate &amp; are willing to pour ALL their life into Music?
Sometimes I do wonder if musicians in their &#039;day job&#039; doing geologists, anthropologists, pre-meds, and web developers (ie: &quot;what you DO, not what you are&quot;) does really ENJOY/love your non-music jobs/careers? or it&#039;s just a thing that every musician need to *force* him/herself into doing?
but how &#039;ironic&#039; that would become,..don&#039;t u think?

I know that we&#039;re probably going back to that &quot;village musician&quot; type, but then I often wonder what else are the things/jobs that these village musicians could DO, other than music? 
and not least important question is also: HOW to be able to find out for the OTHER &#039;money-making&#039; passion, other than the 100% Love of Music &amp; being a musician?

If you or any musician here can share any insights on this one, I would be really glad &amp; appreciate it so much. As I&#039;m now 28 yrs old, and also still struggling in this Music .versus. Reality (money) dilemma/issue,..while my mind is constantly 100% filled with Music (compositions ideas, music parts arrangement ideas, etc) &amp; really *nothing* else!

thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points,<br />
but then,..the next important question becomes: what OTHER &#8220;professions&#8221; these musicians need to do (or find out), if they&#8217;re really 100% passionate &amp; are willing to pour ALL their life into Music?<br />
Sometimes I do wonder if musicians in their &#8216;day job&#8217; doing geologists, anthropologists, pre-meds, and web developers (ie: &#8220;what you DO, not what you are&#8221;) does really ENJOY/love your non-music jobs/careers? or it&#8217;s just a thing that every musician need to *force* him/herself into doing?<br />
but how &#8216;ironic&#8217; that would become,..don&#8217;t u think?</p>
<p>I know that we&#8217;re probably going back to that &#8220;village musician&#8221; type, but then I often wonder what else are the things/jobs that these village musicians could DO, other than music?<br />
and not least important question is also: HOW to be able to find out for the OTHER &#8216;money-making&#8217; passion, other than the 100% Love of Music &amp; being a musician?</p>
<p>If you or any musician here can share any insights on this one, I would be really glad &amp; appreciate it so much. As I&#8217;m now 28 yrs old, and also still struggling in this Music .versus. Reality (money) dilemma/issue,..while my mind is constantly 100% filled with Music (compositions ideas, music parts arrangement ideas, etc) &amp; really *nothing* else!</p>
<p>thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: Calvin</title>
		<link>http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-218871</link>
		<dc:creator>Calvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jun 2007 21:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/#comment-218871</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t talk about major labels, even indie bands are suffering the fate of poverty. I think the most major problem is competition. Even if your stuff is great, it takes more in making a name than music talent. There are super lots of issues in getting an act together lest the issues of making your music to the commercial standard. A high cost is involved and music entertainment biz can be severely complex. Sometimes lots of money can be earned, but most times preparation takes too much time that sucks up financial means. The only one great thing every musician earns is great life experience. The clever ones do earn quite a bit though. The whole music industry is a form of capitalism. It seems to me that the poor are really poor, the rich are really rich. But maybe i&#039;m wrong about the rich ones, since i&#039;ve never in that &#039;shoe&#039;. Still, sometimes, i do get good offers of finances that way surpass that of normal wage earners.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t talk about major labels, even indie bands are suffering the fate of poverty. I think the most major problem is competition. Even if your stuff is great, it takes more in making a name than music talent. There are super lots of issues in getting an act together lest the issues of making your music to the commercial standard. A high cost is involved and music entertainment biz can be severely complex. Sometimes lots of money can be earned, but most times preparation takes too much time that sucks up financial means. The only one great thing every musician earns is great life experience. The clever ones do earn quite a bit though. The whole music industry is a form of capitalism. It seems to me that the poor are really poor, the rich are really rich. But maybe i&#8217;m wrong about the rich ones, since i&#8217;ve never in that &#8216;shoe&#8217;. Still, sometimes, i do get good offers of finances that way surpass that of normal wage earners.</p>
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		<title>By: Cloudmar</title>
		<link>http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-150607</link>
		<dc:creator>Cloudmar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Aug 2006 17:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/#comment-150607</guid>
		<description>Musicians have families and bills don&#039;t steal! Running a band takes money as well. As a manager, promotor and tour company owner I know this too well. I have reviewed label contracts that were insulting. You haven&#039;t even mentioned Pay for Play where a band plays to be on a National Tour. I hate that part of the business. I advise new bands on the business of the music industry. There is money to be made but it takes more than just talent. Digital distribution is the future but even here the payback to the musicians are getting smaller. 
Rock ON!
Cloudmar
Roaring Dragon Entertainment</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Musicians have families and bills don&#8217;t steal! Running a band takes money as well. As a manager, promotor and tour company owner I know this too well. I have reviewed label contracts that were insulting. You haven&#8217;t even mentioned Pay for Play where a band plays to be on a National Tour. I hate that part of the business. I advise new bands on the business of the music industry. There is money to be made but it takes more than just talent. Digital distribution is the future but even here the payback to the musicians are getting smaller.<br />
Rock ON!<br />
Cloudmar<br />
Roaring Dragon Entertainment</p>
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		<title>By: Chromatic Musings</title>
		<link>http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-5727</link>
		<dc:creator>Chromatic Musings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Feb 2005 03:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/#comment-5727</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Starving artist is not just a cliche&lt;/strong&gt;
Brad has an interesting article about musicians and their success. It&#039;s mostly anecdotes about famous or semi-famous musicians that have day jobs. It&#039;s strange to me that this fact is still a mind blower.Sometimes I wonder if artists being more...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Starving artist is not just a cliche</strong><br />
Brad has an interesting article about musicians and their success. It&#8217;s mostly anecdotes about famous or semi-famous musicians that have day jobs. It&#8217;s strange to me that this fact is still a mind blower.Sometimes I wonder if artists being more&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: victor</title>
		<link>http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-5684</link>
		<dc:creator>victor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Feb 2005 22:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/#comment-5684</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not going to spam brad&#039;s site anymore. You can read my response &lt;a href=&quot;http://virtualturntable.org/archives/000263.php&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. Comments welcome. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not going to spam brad&#8217;s site anymore. You can read my response <a href="http://virtualturntable.org/archives/000263.php">here</a>. Comments welcome. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-5680</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Feb 2005 15:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/#comment-5680</guid>
		<description>if your contract is bad, DON&#039;T SIGN IT. if you sign a contract where you don&#039;t own your masters, whose fault is it?

if you need health insurance, pay for it out of your advance. what&#039;s that advance for if not all your expenses while recording and touring? that&#039;s the deal. you get access to the label&#039;s resources and they front you the money to pay for it. they expect to make their money back, and you get to eat and work while that happens, and then eventually everybody starts to *make* money. if you don&#039;t want to use their system, don&#039;t.

again, i&#039;m not ever going to claim that nobody&#039;s ever been taken advantage of, but i do have a problem with the constant crying &quot;victim&quot; from people who went into the deal with unrealistic expectations.

and i wonder what Team Love does for their dayjobs. man, people think the solution to this stuff is so obvious, but it&#039;s just not.

and stealing music on the internet is still stealing money from somebody&#039;s baby. if they work at Capitol records in the mailroom, you&#039;re still ripping them off. i&#039;m not saying don&#039;t do it, but calling yourself virtuous while being a music glutton is just wrong. &quot;I&#039;m doing the right thing by stealing this U2 album!&quot; no, you&#039;re just stealing that U2 album. you&#039;re enjoying the work without remunerating the artist in any way. and don&#039;t give me that one-off &quot;but i sent them a dollar&quot; bullcrap. you did not. admit it, just to yourself, and be on your merry thieving way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if your contract is bad, DON&#8217;T SIGN IT. if you sign a contract where you don&#8217;t own your masters, whose fault is it?</p>
<p>if you need health insurance, pay for it out of your advance. what&#8217;s that advance for if not all your expenses while recording and touring? that&#8217;s the deal. you get access to the label&#8217;s resources and they front you the money to pay for it. they expect to make their money back, and you get to eat and work while that happens, and then eventually everybody starts to *make* money. if you don&#8217;t want to use their system, don&#8217;t.</p>
<p>again, i&#8217;m not ever going to claim that nobody&#8217;s ever been taken advantage of, but i do have a problem with the constant crying &#8220;victim&#8221; from people who went into the deal with unrealistic expectations.</p>
<p>and i wonder what Team Love does for their dayjobs. man, people think the solution to this stuff is so obvious, but it&#8217;s just not.</p>
<p>and stealing music on the internet is still stealing money from somebody&#8217;s baby. if they work at Capitol records in the mailroom, you&#8217;re still ripping them off. i&#8217;m not saying don&#8217;t do it, but calling yourself virtuous while being a music glutton is just wrong. &#8220;I&#8217;m doing the right thing by stealing this U2 album!&#8221; no, you&#8217;re just stealing that U2 album. you&#8217;re enjoying the work without remunerating the artist in any way. and don&#8217;t give me that one-off &#8220;but i sent them a dollar&#8221; bullcrap. you did not. admit it, just to yourself, and be on your merry thieving way.</p>
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		<title>By: marcus</title>
		<link>http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-5678</link>
		<dc:creator>marcus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Feb 2005 20:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/#comment-5678</guid>
		<description>yeah. I mean I look at cases like how The Beatles got proper fucked, just proper fucked, no two ways about it. Paul and Ringo aren&#039;t hurting now, but they aren&#039;t what they could&#039;ve been if Epstein was a more solid business mind, and record labels weren&#039;t douches. I look forward to the day when music&#039;s free but CD and concert tickets go to line the musicians&#039; pockets. &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.team-love.com/&quot;&gt;maybe we&#039;ll be there sooner and not later&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah. I mean I look at cases like how The Beatles got proper fucked, just proper fucked, no two ways about it. Paul and Ringo aren&#8217;t hurting now, but they aren&#8217;t what they could&#8217;ve been if Epstein was a more solid business mind, and record labels weren&#8217;t douches. I look forward to the day when music&#8217;s free but CD and concert tickets go to line the musicians&#8217; pockets. <a href="http://www.team-love.com/">maybe we&#8217;ll be there sooner and not later</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: victor</title>
		<link>http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-5677</link>
		<dc:creator>victor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Feb 2005 19:24:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/#comment-5677</guid>
		<description>Hmmmm. What label was it that allows you to keep your masters? What label was it again that provides health insurance? Or a living for that matter? There is no salary on a label deal. 

It&#039;s a what? A loan? Then after the loan is &#039;paid back&#039; I get my masters back, right? Since I paid for the recording session, right? Not even the NFL fucks over their talent in that way.

90% of music artists are dropped because they are not promoted. This is institutionalized at the label. The label will not promote artists that do not spend their own money on promotion first and break themselves. I don&#039;t know of a single case where a major label actually broke a new artist using the label&#039;s resources. Do you?

These &#039;arbeit macht frei&#039;  myths just don&#039;t map to reality at majors for the last 40 years. 

And marcos, the options you mentioned are very, very new. That&#039;s all. It&#039;s been 100 years one way and 2 years the new way. It&#039;s a scary thing to relearn what you&#039;ve been drilled since childhood to believe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmmm. What label was it that allows you to keep your masters? What label was it again that provides health insurance? Or a living for that matter? There is no salary on a label deal. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a what? A loan? Then after the loan is &#8216;paid back&#8217; I get my masters back, right? Since I paid for the recording session, right? Not even the NFL fucks over their talent in that way.</p>
<p>90% of music artists are dropped because they are not promoted. This is institutionalized at the label. The label will not promote artists that do not spend their own money on promotion first and break themselves. I don&#8217;t know of a single case where a major label actually broke a new artist using the label&#8217;s resources. Do you?</p>
<p>These &#8216;arbeit macht frei&#8217;  myths just don&#8217;t map to reality at majors for the last 40 years. </p>
<p>And marcos, the options you mentioned are very, very new. That&#8217;s all. It&#8217;s been 100 years one way and 2 years the new way. It&#8217;s a scary thing to relearn what you&#8217;ve been drilled since childhood to believe.</p>
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		<title>By: JB</title>
		<link>http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/comment-page-1/#comment-5676</link>
		<dc:creator>JB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Feb 2005 15:29:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bradsucks.net/archives/2005/02/04/musicians-are-poor/#comment-5676</guid>
		<description>marcus, because it costs MONEY to tour and do CDs their own way. it costs lots of money. that&#039;s what labels provide, up front. then you have to pay it back. i&#039;m not going to say the majors won&#039;t try to take advantage of you every way they possibly can, but the basic premise is more like a bank loan-- one that you don&#039;t even have to pay back if your album fails to make the money back. why do so many major label acts fail? because 90% of everything is complete crap.

watch your own back, don&#039;t sign your life away, choose your battles, and you&#039;ll be all right. if you get a major label deal, think of it like a job-- like my job. i get money to live on, a little goes into a 401k, i can afford health insurance for a year, and maybe a couple thousand goes into savings. if you come out of a major label deal a year label having eaten for a year, slept under a roof for a year, saved a little (if you didn&#039;t fritter it away on limos, you idiot), and had health insurance for a year, then how did you come out any the worse for wear than a regular joe? my employer certainly plans to make a lot more revenue from my work than they pay me, otherwise, why would they pay me?

everything&#039;s taken to extremes. there is a problem, but the solution is in educating artists as to what they really need to do in order to make it, major label or not. it&#039;s not a free ticket to fame and glory. it&#039;s a free ticket to even more hard work, eternal vigilance over your legal rights, and the possibility of future employment doing what you love-- making music.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>marcus, because it costs MONEY to tour and do CDs their own way. it costs lots of money. that&#8217;s what labels provide, up front. then you have to pay it back. i&#8217;m not going to say the majors won&#8217;t try to take advantage of you every way they possibly can, but the basic premise is more like a bank loan&#8211; one that you don&#8217;t even have to pay back if your album fails to make the money back. why do so many major label acts fail? because 90% of everything is complete crap.</p>
<p>watch your own back, don&#8217;t sign your life away, choose your battles, and you&#8217;ll be all right. if you get a major label deal, think of it like a job&#8211; like my job. i get money to live on, a little goes into a 401k, i can afford health insurance for a year, and maybe a couple thousand goes into savings. if you come out of a major label deal a year label having eaten for a year, slept under a roof for a year, saved a little (if you didn&#8217;t fritter it away on limos, you idiot), and had health insurance for a year, then how did you come out any the worse for wear than a regular joe? my employer certainly plans to make a lot more revenue from my work than they pay me, otherwise, why would they pay me?</p>
<p>everything&#8217;s taken to extremes. there is a problem, but the solution is in educating artists as to what they really need to do in order to make it, major label or not. it&#8217;s not a free ticket to fame and glory. it&#8217;s a free ticket to even more hard work, eternal vigilance over your legal rights, and the possibility of future employment doing what you love&#8211; making music.</p>
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